but one gaffe one mistake, one eye roll, famously, you remember when george herbert walker bush looked at his wrist watch. it cost him. when al gore started talking about a lockbox and kind of looked very robotic and broke the body space of george w. bush in 2000, it hurt him. so it's those -- this is a theatrical event as much as it is policy. >> jennifer: so great. i can hardly wait. i totally love having you come inside "the war room" and bring us this sort of view from history. historian douglas brinkley joining us. thanks so much. after the break, when it comes to our views on public unions, well, let's just say there is a teeny bit of daylight between myself and our next guest. it will be an interesting conversation, i can promise you that and a little later, brett ehrlich picks up the presidential debate ball where douglas brinkley left off and he drops it. >> the key changes to the debate format that will change the face of american discourse forever! don't go away. you'd spot movement, gather intelligence with minimal collateral damage. but rather than neutralizing enemies in